From: Ron (rjon@vzavenue.net)
Date: July 19, 2005 3:49:11 PM EDT
To: postaum2005@sriaurobindocenter>la.com
Subject: Re: Question about challenging the materialist view of the evolution of consciousness
Hi Michael (& Don),
Re your suggestion that we identify the metaphysical positions of our
postings, here's my attempt with the researchers I mentioned in my
previous posting: Jefferey Satinover, and Stuart Hameroff & Sir
Roger Penrose.
1) Jefferey Satinover. He doesn't specically name his metaphysics, but
I'd guess that it's close to a genuine scientic agnosticism, tinged by
his personal belief in human responsibility. Here are some quotes from
his book, "The Quantum Brain," pp. 222-223:
> "It has become widely believed
that 'man is a machine,' especially among intellectuals. The
consequences lie all about us. That doesn't mean it's not so. But
because the consequences seem to me so bad, I indeed hope it isn't so.
Quantum theory may once again make reasonable an insistence that we are
free; it offers no guidance whatsoever as how to use that freedom."
> "What the quantum foundation of
life tells me is this: The future has not yet been written. In very
large part, with dramatically opposite possibilities lying as yet
untapped, we will make it what it will be. In a strange and eerily
perfect way, we are condensers of destiny, distilling the maximum
possible amount of the universe's intrinsic freedom into an incredibly
tiny package [the human brain]."
> I don't know whose freedom it
really is, if anyone's, but I am convinced it is there and is woven
into every ber every tubule I suppose I should say of my
being, even if one calls it 'chance.' (So it behooves me to do the best
I can to learn whatever rules of conduct are most likely to yield the
results I long for."
> "I don't know for sure whether
there are such things as 'prophets' in the biblical sense. But if there
are, it seems to me that they, too, don't know the future so much as
the possibilities that lie before us. 'The Messiah will come in an age
that is either entirely good or entirely evil,' says an ancient Jewish
legend from long before the days of chaos theory and bifurcation.
Perhaps he hasn't yet made up his mind either. "
2) Stuart Hameroff (SH) describes his metaphysical position as "pan-protopsychist":
> "I'm a panprotopsychist
whatever gives rise to consciousness is implicit and inherent and
exists everywhere in the universe. It's an irreducible, fundamental
feature of the universe like spin or charge."
> "I'm not an idealist, like
Bishop Berkeley or Hindu approaches, in which consciousness is all
there is. Nor am I a Copenhagenist in which consciousness causes
[quantum] collapse (and chooses reality from a number of
possibilities). But somewhere in between. Consciousness exists on the
edge between the quantum and classical worlds."
> "I think more like a quantum
Buddhist, in that there is a universal proto-conscious mind which we
access, and can influence us. But it actually exists at the
funda-mental level of the universe, at the Planck scale."
www.dailygrail.com/node/842 - For a more detailed treatment of
pan-protopsychism, see David Chalmers' paper "Materialism and the
Metaphysics of Modality," [ http://consc.net/papers/modality.html
]
3) I haven't found anyplace where Roger Penrose specically names his
metaphysics, but I would guess that's it's also "pan-protopsychist,"
judging by the following comments; e.g.:
> "That's the beauty of Roger's
objective reduction. It's a bridge between the Planck scale and our
everyday world, described by one simple equation?" the uncertainty
principle." [and Godel's Incompleteness Theorem] [SH]
> [Roger says that] "Our brains,
and our microtubules, make the connection. If our conscious experience
is a compilation of fundamental qualia, then we're like a painter with
a palette. All the individual colors are on the palette, and the artist
takes a little of this, a little of that, and gets a Mona Lisa. So the
colors are like the patterns of fundamental spacetime geometry from
which our brain processes select particular sets for each conscious
moment. And if qualia are fundamental and exist at the Planck scale,
then why not Platonic values like truth and beauty, good and evil." [SH]
> "According to Penrose, Godel's
theorem implies that not only mathematical understanding but also human
musical, artistic, and aesthetic creativity and appreciation come from
contact with the Platonic world of reality.
Penrose claims that this level is
responsible for noncomputational, nondeterministic effects in human
understanding, a claim that elicits strong criticism from many computer
scientists."
[Kunio Yasue, http://cognet.mit.edu/posters/TUCSON3/Yasue.html]
4) Given my amateur understanding of all this, I would guess that my
metaphysical position is similar to theirs. "Panprotopsychism" implies
a belief in a "protoconscious" set of "Platonic" qualities that exist
everywhere and everywhen, at the fundamental, non-reducible level of
spacetime itself, the Planck scale. These qualities include basic
mathematical truths and human-type values like goodness, truth, beauty,
and delight. [Sound familiar?]
This position is distinct from Democritus's claim that empty space is
an absolute void, and is consistent with Aristotle's perspective that
empty space consists of some kind of background pattern or plenum. It
seems to be similar to (but surely not the same as) the 4-dimensional
spacetime curvature posited by Einstein in his general theory of
relativity. The difference from Einstein's work is the inclusion of the
basic values (philosophers call them "qualia") mentioned above, which
in turn imply the possibility that the universe is somehow "alive."
This is reminiscent of Alfred North Whitehead's approach which saw the
universe as a process of events, some of which have a mental quality
("throbs, or occasions of experience"). There are an increasing number
of modern quantum physicists who share this perspective; e.g. Shimon
Malin, Abner Shimony, Mari Jibu, Gordon Globus, Kudio Yasue and of
course Roger Penrose.
5) This sounds somewhat theistic, but I think it differs by leaving
open the question whether the posited fundamental plenum implies
theistic views of the existence of a self-conscious Deity or God. Until
I have the kinds of personal experiences that Sri Aurobindo and the
Mother describe, I also would prefer to leave this question open. But I
don't think my position is agnostic either, perhaps it's more in the
direction of a "wannabe" theist, hoping it's true but not yet being
evolved enough in my practice of the Yoga to know for sure.
In a later posting, I'll address the topic of how all this relates to
the evolution of life and the possibilities of new levels of human
evolution.
(Note: I'm not a professional philosopher, so for sure take my above comments with, as Richard suggests, "a grain of salt.")
Namaste,
~ ron
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064 ra. Metaphysical positions of Satinover, Penrose & Hameroff
by
ronjon
on Tue 19 Jul 2005 03:49 PM PDT | Permanent Link
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