From: Ron (rjon@vzavenue.net)
Date: July 22, 2005 11:34:59 AM PDT
To: rjon@vzavenue.net
Subject: Re: CMVEV - Response to Alok's concerns
Reply-To: postaum2005@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Hi Alok,

1) You say:

-
"The whole issue is whether Consciousness is a primary fundamental
Reality of this universe that becomes matter at some point of time or
is this world primarily matter and consciousness itself is nothing but
a shadow dragging at its feet. ..."

Beautifully stated Alok --
in my opinion you've identified the central question. To make my
position clear, I've believed for as long as I can remember that
Consciousness is a primary fundamental Reality and all else derives
from It. (I hope this comes out in my posts.) I'm quoting scientists
that seem to me to be at least sincere agnostics and perhaps even
closet theists, which I understood to be Don and Jan's request in their
effort to "challenge the materialistic view of evolution."

E.g., Don and Jan say they asked a biology professor this question:

-
" According to current evolutionary theory, it is chance biological
mutations that play the fundamental role in determining whether various
plant and animal species survive or die out. The emergence of
altogether new species is thought to be determined in the same way. Are
there findings and/or theories which offer a plausible account of how
intelligence might play a role in this process?"

My comments
attempt to offer some references to serious scientists whom I think do
offer plausible accounts of how 'Intelligence' might play a role in
evolution.

Alok, I also agree with your point that:

- "
... we must be careful of the attempt to reduce Consciousness to a
material and mechanical phenomenon as indeed much of quantum mechanics
implies, even when it talks of the electron behaving as if making
choices. It is in fact one way of discarding the Truth by admitting and
explaining it away. Sri Aurobindo pointed out this possibility and this
new form of danger from the 'adversary'."

In my posts, I'm
attempting to build a background for directly addressing your point by
relating the ideas of some of these scientists directly to the Yoga.

I
hope it's obvious that the quantum physicists I'm quoting, Sir Roger
Penrose in particular, are arguing for Consciousness being primary.
They're of course using the language and methodologies of modern
science -- how else can one hope to communicate a "spiritual" view to
materialist scientists who often reject the legitimacy of the
conversation itself? I believe the work of highly credible scientists
like McFadden, Penrose and Hameroff is potentially revolutionary, a
significant effort to open a new paradigm which allows mutual respect,
communication, and even possible collaboration between science and
spirituality. My understanding is that was one of the purposes of
AUM2005 and this forum.

In closing here's a quote from Penrose's book: "The Large, the Small and the Human Mind" that I think is relevant:

-
"Some people ... prefer to think of mathematical concepts merely as
idealizations of our physical world -- and, on this view, the
mathematical world would be thought of as emerging from the world of
physical objects. - "Now, this is not how I think of mathematics, nor,
I believe, is it how most mathematicians or mathematical physicists
think about the world. They think about it in a rather different way,
as a structure precisely governed according to timeless mathematical
laws. Thus, they prefer to think of the physical world, more
appropriately, as emerging out of the ('timeless') world of
mathematics, as illustrated in Figure 1.3."

Figure 1.3 shows the
"Physical World" emerging from the "Platonic World" of eternal ideals
such as: Mathematics, Truth, Beauty, Harmony and Delight. I think this
is about as close to Sri Aurobindo and the Mother's teachings as we can
expect present-day science to venture.

My hope is that discussions like this will lead to an evolving synergy between science and spirituality.

Respectfully,

~ ron