I also think this is a "second tier" function of the chart, which if I understand it correctly, imparts this type behavior to birds and mammals. It seems to me however, that in bees , birds, and most mammals who herd, this intelligence is not a function of the individual animal but rather proper to the "group mind", which I believe is primarily operative in most animal species, (including humans to a lesser extent but perhaps to a greater extent than which we would be comfortable in admitting) and that this dynamic when it comes to flocking birds or bees seeking honey, seems not to directly fall directly into the categories given in the chart. ...    more »

I'd be curious to know what type methodology which you are applying to this research concerning ranges of animal consciousness? Also if this is part of your research (if not then please ignore) how would you account for those extraordinary migratory phenomena found among animals, insects, and fish, for example: ...    more »

just to add a bit to Debashish's excellent assessment of affective intersubjectivity, I'd like to forward a message (edited) sent to me by Guy Burneko, which seems to compliment this notion of shifting from an ideological to an affective intersubjectivity. (or a co-worlding) ...    more »

A. One does not speak of intersubjectivity of the individual, one then speaks of subjectivity

B. Whereas One does not doubt the necessity of a strong guiding intuition, without a proper intersubjective methodology in setting parameters for self-organization even the small collective following a guiding intuition can be led into obscuration and corruption. ...

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t is true also that the spiritual change has been individual and not collective: its result has been successful in man , but unsuccessful or only indirectly operative in the human mass. ...   more »

In seeking to justify the reasons for this forum the post seeks to define the utility of intersubjective discourse and the justification for it in Sri Aurobindo's works. Along the way it also addresses Rod's doubts regarding the notion of intersubjectivity and points to concerns others made at AUM - namely Matthijs and Bindu - regarding the possibility of successfully entering into a wider cultural dialog concerning IY and science. ...   more »

so I take it that Harpo and Chico are already inside the cube?    more »

Do you have any idea about how you would "explain" this in an intersubjective sphere? Could it be?    more »

To follow up on the great bacteria consciousness controversy, although I would have to agree that they do not make conscious choices in quite the same manner as us humanoid types there is apparently something going on with these little devils, IMO it resembles a sort of fantastically advanced consciousness at work at the barest levels of the physical mind propelling the evolution forward. Here is the specific quote out of indeed one of my favorite science books Howard Bloom's Global Brain. ...    more »

I think the example just restates what Michael alluded to, namely that these guys can't really agree among themselves, are always debating and the whole scientific enterprise is constantly in flux . In this instance you have a very liberal Darwinist ( Gould ) versus a Ultra Darwinist (Dennet) . I guess the biologist I really like however, is Brian Goodwin -who you probably already know- who is at Shumacher College and the Open University in London. ...    more »

I know of no other single encapsulated argument that demolishes so many of the neo- (ultra) Darwinians assuptions then the classic criticism of Dan Dennett's book "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" by Stephan J Gould in which he locates 3 fallacies in the classic neo-Darwinist explanation of everything - including evolutionary psychology - which are based on the idea of the supposed Darwinian algorithm. ...   more »

Alok, Ameeta, Lopa,

I find the following statements especially illuminate this question of action in the world:

Alok:

>To understand the symbolic truth or the play and balance of forces that are at work one needs first of all to get rid of nervous and emotional reaction as well as of the surface reason that is incapable of knowing. ...

>However, in her physical absence, I guess, I try and look at all events from a deeper perspective. Not just seeing the surface, but what the surface often disguises and hides. The Mother has often spoken about developing a psychic discrimination in the consciousness. This essentially could be one methodology. There would be of course many others, but here it depends a lot on the person's prakriti. ...
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046 rc. test

From: "Richard" <rcarlson@olympus.net>
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com
Subject: test
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:16:08 +0200

Message - 046/149

test

Debashish, Although the questions you extracted are interesting in their own rite and deserve consideration if I may rephrase the questions a bit? - I think the concerns of my post are: ...    more »

Where there may be some divergence of views on integral yoga as it asserts itself to be a yoga of the world, would concern how one embodies the yoga in ones actions in the world, and how one informs ones action. Are we forced to act in the world? Of course! Are we forced to choose which actions we will take in the world? Yes, we do in fact have a choice as to how we should act Does practice of a spiritual discipline necessarily imply that we will take appropriate actions in the world? There would probably be some differences of opinions here as well. Because some may argue that this is all we can really do and appropriate actions will follow from our realizations in the practice. Others however, would be quick to point out that over the centuries many people who have adhered to certain spiritual practices have created all sorts of blunders by which humanity has greatly suffered, and this is why a secular society is still valued in our countries. ...    more »

As Vikas so nicely reminded us Sri Aurobindo was often quite prophetic in his analysis of events. In fact his take on Newton was quite an astute deconstruction of Newtonian Science well before the tactic of deconstruction was even formally recognized as a tool of analysis. So I personally try and heed his warnings about the future, and although I try and use caution in extrapolating the meaning of his texts into the future, especially when he is commenting on certain specific issues of culture occuring at the time of his writing. However, the following excerpts mostly from The Human Cycle on the promises and perils of science, should perhaps be taken very seriously by those practicing a yoga with such a definite stake in the future. ...   more »

Sri Aurobindo was often quite prophetic in his analysis of events. In fact his take on Newton was quite an astute deconstruction of Newtonian Science well before the tactic of deconstruction was even formally recognized as a tool of analysis. So I personally try and heed his warnings about the future, and although I try and use caution in extrapolating the meaning of his texts into the future, especially when he is commenting on certain specific issues of culture occuring at the time of his writing. However, the following excerpts mostly from The Human Cycle on the promises and perils of science, should perhaps be taken very seriously by those practicing a yoga with such a definite stake in the future. ...    more »